i was having this discussion with a friend and we didn't get anywhere;
if you are in a community of people and a member (X) of the community does something very hurtful and unjust to someone esle (Y) and causes him/her alot of pain and damage.
(X) has done nothing to you personally, and is in fact nice to you. (Y) is (X)'s victim and suffering.
what are we supposed to do concerning (X)
1. nothing, he hurt (Y) not me, so why should i change myattitude
2. talk to (X) and tell him what he did is wrong
3. deal with (X) as we would deal with an un nice person even though he did nothing to us
4. other ,... (i am open to your suggestions)
if you are in a community of people and a member (X) of the community does something very hurtful and unjust to someone esle (Y) and causes him/her alot of pain and damage.
(X) has done nothing to you personally, and is in fact nice to you. (Y) is (X)'s victim and suffering.
what are we supposed to do concerning (X)
1. nothing, he hurt (Y) not me, so why should i change myattitude
2. talk to (X) and tell him what he did is wrong
3. deal with (X) as we would deal with an un nice person even though he did nothing to us
4. other ,... (i am open to your suggestions)
posted by doshar @ 6/27/2005 04:19:00 PM
13 Comments:
At 6/27/2005 4:47 PM,
roora said…
hi i dont know really as a fact or principle , i mean if this victim is my sis or my best friend i will probally deal so negatively towards X, if on the other hand, the victim doesnt mean anything and the X is my friend , it will depend on how X will narrate the stpry for me, you know no body narrates the story in a way that showns that he or she did something wrong even infromt of themselves, luckly who are able to admit they are wring and accuse themselves before they are actually are one day .
well if both sides are close to me at same level i guess i will take the victime's side, i may not cut it short with the X, but deep in my hear i will not feel good about hi anymore, i may talk to him in agentle way if i have to but i know that this wont stay long and i will cut it short after a while, because he is not a trustee any more. asmall action can denote alot about the personality and i believ that attitudes are generalized, i cant say X is good with Y but a bad person with Z.
aGOOD PERSON IS GOOD WITH WHO EVER
At 6/27/2005 4:51 PM,
roora said…
just want to add something good person is not only good with friends but with enemies as the qyran teaches US TO BE
At 6/27/2005 10:14 PM,
LouLou said…
If X is not a close friend of mine I'd avoid him/her like the plague!After making my opinion of what X did to Y clear.
If X IS a close friend abahdilu. I'll tell him/her they're being a jerk everytime I see them until they wise up & make amends.
At 6/27/2005 10:25 PM,
doshar said…
thanx ya loulou, i just asked a quran teacher about religous stance and it was in agreement with yours.
this is in essence with the hadith of "onsor akhak zaleman aw mazlooman"
if every one did like you, no one would hurt anyone because they would feel they would not be left alone.
btw, loulou, i read your blog about the coffeshop and the girl that you felt sorry for there, empathy is a rare quality these days li el asaf, you seem to have a good and kind heart. i wish you the best in life always
At 6/28/2005 7:44 AM,
LouLou said…
Good morning doshar,
>>i read your blog about the coffeshop and the girl that you felt sorry for there, empathy is a rare quality these days li el asaf, you seem to have a good and kind heart. i wish you the best in life always
<<
Thanks. Am sure you would have felt bad for her too. She was only 14 & she looked about 12.Clearly she'd fallen in with a bad group. I asked her where she knows them from & if they were in school with her & she said yes. So I told her that she should try hanging out with more girls her age.And that in addition to being older than her they were not very nice people.I hope she'll listen.
I AM shocked at her parents though. At her age I would never have been allowed to sit in coffee shops or restaurants my parents didn't know. It was a big treat to be allowed to go to Burger King with my school friends. And only once a week. And my parents or an older brother would have to drop me off & pick me up & see who I'm sitting with.
There was even a house rule that if I'm in a group & someone new joins I have to call home & tell my parents & if they don't like him/her they come & get me right away. If it was a guy there would be a million questions. How old is he?Is he in your class?What's his family name?I didn't dare break this rule because if they come & see someone they don't know it would be a BIG issue.
My family still has the same sensitivity about seeing me with people they don't know & I'm almost 29 now!
I guess we're getting old & times have changed!
At 6/28/2005 9:55 AM,
doshar said…
wow. your family really are protective
but again as much as you may have felt it was restricting growing up, it probably saved you alot of heartache without knowing it
of course as you grow older, they should trust that you are wiser now and are able to make the right choices based on how they brought you up. they are just a bit sensitive still just out of force of habit than anything else
my parents put way too much trust in me much younger than that. they are quite conservative too, but amazingly they thought i would behave like they would like me to on my own (i don't know why).
but the matter of the fact is i didn't practice good judjement. you know how kids think thay have it all figured out. but we all live and learn i guess.
At 6/28/2005 9:56 AM,
salateenoo said…
we have to know at first the motives of X and what realy force him to hurt Y, maybe Y is the one who vexed X, right ?
so the motives i believe is the factor that will determine how we could deal with X.
At 6/28/2005 11:25 AM,
doshar said…
well this question was providing that we know all the facts and motives and it is already established that X was wrong and has no excuses. if you know for a fact that X was lets say just a jerk and it is not Y';s fault what would you do.
it is to discuss our attitude against a wrong doer in community, not to discuss a certain topic per se
At 6/28/2005 2:35 PM,
Alina said…
I agree with LouLou on this one. If X were a close friend, I would try to get him on the right track. And I would expect the same from my friends if I'd be the X of the case.
At 6/29/2005 8:52 AM,
LouLou said…
"but again as much as you may have felt it was restricting growing up, it probably saved you alot of heartache without knowing it."
It was restricting but I personally don't believe in giving any freedom at all to 14 year olds. It's very silly age when you think you know everything & you are full of rebellion & self-importance when the truth is that you know nothing.
I would trust an 18 or 19 year old.
"they are just a bit sensitive still just out of force of habit than anything else"
I know that. This is why I don't pay any attention to them anymore when they complain. And they know I don't & they tolerate it because deep down inside they do trust my judgement.
I give in sometimes on small issues because I feel sorry for them. It's not worth upsetting them for a pair of jeans or a top or an extra hour out. I save the fights for important things - like when I need to travel alone for work or school. And when they dislike a relationship or a friendship that is important to me.My carreer, my friends, my lovelife. Things that matter.
At 7/01/2005 11:59 AM,
Alina said…
I wanted to post this on my blog, but I can't post a comment, Blogger knows why! So, for the recent comments thingy - just click the Blogger Hacks link at the end of my recemt comments and it will lead you to a blog providing the HTML code you need. You just have to copy and paste that code on your sidebar. Good luck and let me know if you need more time! See u!
At 7/03/2005 1:04 AM,
Dalulla said…
Provided i know what the issue was about, and i do know X and Y well, I would definetly try to talk some sense into x's head.. If he/she do not listen and insist on doing Y wrong, then away i go and try my best to console y and not let her/him feel they lost much.. Sometimes things we want so much are just not for our best interest, but at the time we do not realize it.
The issue is not letting people get away with things, not because of taking sides, but because of standard morals, ethics, and religious teachings that must be respected.. We would not want negative traits to widespread in our communities.
Yes Doshar, the hadeeth is the best example answering to your question.. Onsor akhaka zaliman, in the sense of minimizing the harm they can inflict on others and on themselves by doing it and thereby bearing sin infront of ALLAH, and mazlouman, in the sense if he/she are in true and justified distress, and need someone to back them up..
We need to help one another in the sense of bettering ourselves, to be better people in the eyes of ALLAH is to be respectable in society.
A true friend is one who tells their friend they are doing wrong and trying to help them be fair and just.. decent and caring..selfless and generous, especially in feelings towards those around us.. even if it is someone we don't know well.
At 7/18/2005 2:56 PM,
Milad said…
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