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Monday, August 29, 2005

Zionism and Judaism, not the same?

I just read this very interesting comment at Dalulla. It talks about non zionist Jews, and tells there is a difference between Jews and zionists.

It was good reading it from another point of view, not Muslim, but Jewish. I know from Quran that , even though alot of the people of the book are said to do great injustices, there are also those who are adherent to their true faith, that are just, good and believe in God. the verses I recall are in sooret Al 3emran, 3rd chapter in Quran.

In no means should we generalize. labelling a whole ethinic group with something that some of them do is not fair. interesting link at Dalulla's.


  • At 8/29/2005 11:37 AM, Blogger roora said…

    yes ya doshar,my cousin in the States told me the same that some of the jews are actually dissagreeing on what happens,

    but how % of jews are disagreeing with all what is happening , it is important question , are they 1 % from the whole Jews population ?

  • At 8/29/2005 2:07 PM, Blogger Dalulla said…

    Roora, meshwar el alf mile beyebtedy be khatwa. What i think is at least we should encourage even this 1% and maybe one day it'll grow. There have been reports of Jews in Israel that have converted to Islam. As moslems we should set a good example for people to encourage them to embrace Islam and if not to learn to live together in peace and respect. Mosh keda wala??

  • At 8/29/2005 4:30 PM, Blogger roora said…

    yeah I agree with you ya dalia , rigt you are then and I think i am wrong here ,

    how do you think we should encouage them ?

  • At 8/29/2005 9:02 PM, Blogger Paul said…

    Doshar, as I looked at your link and also read your reply to my last comment on a previous post, I know that if I were Jewish, I would personally regret that the land was ever taken from the Palestinians. As it is, I think of my own country - I am living on a continent that was stolen from its native people, who were nearly exterminated. I actually think of them quite often - the Native Americans. I honor them in my heart - all the lost cultures and lost lives, the transformation of a whole continent that once belonged to them.

    But honestly, I feel it is simply impossible to "put things back" after these sorts of mass migrations of people. I don't think it's realistic to expect reverse mass migration by pointing to a line in scripture.

    I think the two sides are going to have to work it out in a realistic manner. Not an easy thing, obviously. The violence, from both sides, I think, is highly counterproductive.

  • At 8/29/2005 11:41 PM, Blogger doshar said…

    the same things that put mass migrations there can put them away. all these people have a real home somewhere else in the world. how old is israel as a state?

    how many israelis are there today who were born there and so were their parents?

    alot of them are first generation immigrants, they can leave in masses just as they have come. i know they would not viluntarily do that by pointing to a line in a script, but i do beleive that one day they will leave, and as they came by force, so will they leave. that is the only realistic solution i see. maybe not today, but one day.

    about the americans: i think that alot of the indians were unnecessarily moved, there was space i believe for a lot of people. there was alot of uninhabited land. also indians were placed in tribes, and their areas were limited to their tribal area, it was possible to have other parts without displacing them. this was a war, but it was different than what happened here.

    palestine was a nation in a time of free nations and boundaries, with boundaries, an army and citizens and it was occupied pure and simple.

    i don't know if you are aware that israel occupied the sinai peninsula by force in 1967 for 6 years (the six day war), and they did not move voluntarily, and they moved in there and built places and hotels to live. we did not say this is just a matter of fact. we fought till we got it all back, finally by 1982. it would not have been an option to say it is not realistic for them to leave. people can move.

  • At 8/31/2005 11:08 PM, Blogger Paul said…

    Yeah, I've thought that about the Native Americans too. It sure didn't have to be handled that way. But it was.

    I hear and understand your outrage. It's only that I can't envision a military solution, can't see how such a victory could occur. I can't picture or imagine it in any realistic terms what it would look like, which is why I believe the only solution involves communicating and sharing the land, disagreeable as I know that is to so many on both sides. And honestly, I feel the Palestinians have the most reason to find it disagreeable.

    I guess neither of us are prophets, so maybe we can "agree to disagree" on this one. But my disagreement with you isn't over the injustice, just different views on what is realistic here.

  • At 9/06/2005 8:04 AM, Blogger Twosret said…


    I may add Paul that if the native Americans come to kick us out and invade America simply because the American land have some spiritual or religious meaning to them then you will understand more the injustice done.

    Realistic soulutions has to be based on justice. There will be no peace without Justice.

    Doshar, we didn't win the war really...we did get back our land peacefully due to the American pressure (you can call it peace keeping) we couldn't advance and win really because we couldn't fight America and Israel.

    I think a one state solution is the ultimate goal that might take generations to accomplish.

  • At 9/06/2005 11:25 AM, Blogger roora said…

    Twosret , off topic , but welcome back where have you been ?


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